How a Musician Can Earn Minimum Wage In 2015…

Musicianminimumwage2015

52 Responses

    • Anonymous

      Say that to your dentist…

      You want music that’s composed, arranged, performed, recorded, mixed and mastered by professional writers, artists and technicians.

      You just don’t want to pay for it!

      Reply
  1. trevor

    where did you get the per stream figures? i’m intrigued by beats and tidal numbers. i’ve never see those on any of my reports.

    Reply
    • trevor

      and i think the math is wrong on beats. are you saying it’s $.18/stream on beats?! if so, i’ll pay the $10/month and just stream my songs on repeat!

      Reply
  2. Anonymous

    The streams are way off. You have a higher rate for Rhapsody than Beats or Tidal (which may be right, no idea) but then more plays required. Which isn’t.

    Reply
  3. Anonymous

    Let’s not forget that to make $5 one must spend at least $10, and of course the years of study and training and education and desire and passion to learn things before you are ready to spend money to maybe get to a point that you might have a slim chance of making money…

    That is why it’s a rich kids, trust funders and of course young persons game, unless an already tenured legacy act…

    Reply
    • steve

      not true. i spend $10/month for a spotify account and can play my songs on loop 24×7. at one minute each, i can get about 1,400 plays per day. and at $.007/stream, that’s $294/month. and that’s with one account…

      Reply
      • small labe1

        that’s not how it works, and … a one minute song??? not reality. Short hit songs are typically three sometimes four minutes long.

        Your math (actually the charts math too) isn’t reality, as you don’t get a fixed rate… actually the more listens, the less each is worth… which is why directing fans to streaming sites (at least with their current business models) is brainless suicide.

        Reply
        • steve

          you’re right, the pay per play is between $.006 and $.008 per stream. so i used an average of $.007. if i play the song 100 times or 10k times, the rate does not change for me. it’s a tiny drop in the bucket of streams on spotify. now if i could do 40 million plays, then it might drop the rate to $.005/stream. but yes, it’s very easy to make a few hundred each month streaming your own songs. there are plenty of people selling this service on fiverr.com. they have the royalty statements to prove it.

          Reply
          • Anonymous

            there are plenty of people selling this service on fiverr.com. they have the royalty statements to prove it.

            i just don’t know how i feel about that, its similar to buying likes on facebook and followers on twiiter, its about the same as appearing objective and passionate when article writing but really taking a few hundred to put some links in and then sell whatever business or product…

            its getting to the point nothing can be trusted, zero, essentially not one article on the internet can be trusted as a viable source anymore, its getting real bad…

            It makes it even more and more difficult for anyone whos actually legitimate, anyone whos actually chasing that career down, not only do they have to deal with the majors and those that have the bigger budgets to do things right, they then deal with all these tech people and affiliate marketing people, i mean no wonder so many people are just turned right off and cynical with people doing stuff like that…

            im sorry, i cant get down with that but best of luck to you, its seriously hurting peoples chances of obtaining a career…

            its one thing if you make music and stream it yourself on a computer, its a whole other to do that…

            Im not huge into gatekeepers, im not huge into all the over regulation, in many industries, and with knowledge you and others are doing stuff like that, its no wonder why it exists, all you are going to do my friend is fuck it all up for everyone else, story of my life, always paying the price because of a small majority of unethical people…

            Hey if you are that tight on money near starvation and homelessness, it is what it is, gotta do what you gotta do, otherwise its just straight gonna lock everything up tighter and tighter and tighter and ruin it even more for anyone actually thinking about seriously doing anything…

          • David

            (a) You are breaching Spotify’s ToS, and if they find out (as they did with Wulfpeck, or whatever they were called) they will cut you off. I think they allowed Wulfpeck to keep whatever payments they had already received, but that was just for PR reasons – Spotify would have been quite entitled to demand a refund.

            (b) What you are doing may amount to a criminal offense, depending on the legislation in the relevant jurisdiction. It is a form of click fraud, and according to one source ‘Click fraud is a felony in some states like California, and arrests have been made in the past’.

            (c) Even if it isn’t a criminal offense, it is thoroughly offensive, as you are taking money away from legitimate artists. You have some chutzpah to come on this site and boast about it.

          • Anonymous

            those other doorknobs just uploaded silence, this guy is doing one minute nothingness, i mean, the least these people can do is take a care and passion and interest in the art of the record and the song, take some time to make the best song and record they can, i mean, at anytime i mention it i get just straight blasted and annihilated, awesome, great world we live in, great society, what a joy to be here, its all become so demotivating and uninspiring, i have no desire to do anything any more, why bother, its awful…

          • David

            I don’t think he means the songs are one minute long, just that his equipment is programmed to play them for one minute, which is enough to count as a single ‘stream’ in Spotify’s accounts. Of course, Spotify’s system ought to be able to detect anomalous play patterns like that.

            I wouldn’t object if this guy was just screwing Spotify, but he isn’t. In fact he isn’t screwing Spotify at all. It makes no difference to Spotify how their revenue is divided up among different artists. It is the other artists’ share of revenue which is cut by this kind of cheating.

          • Steve

            The songs are, on average, are 1 minute. Some a little longer, some a little shorter. So playing my own songs on repeat 24×7, is a violation?! What if I wanted to play Drake songs 24×7? If spotify deems it as ‘suspicious’, they do pull the songs. But they still pay you. I’ve had probably 300 songs pulled in the past few years and I’ve been paid for all the plays I had up til the point of removal.

            And for those talking about the art…get the fuck out. ‘Art’ will never bring you any money. Who’s to say that these aren’t just garbage songs recorded under a pseudonym giving money that I can pour into my only ‘legitimate’ music?

            You all sit here and bitch how the .007/stream can’t sustain a music career. Well, for me, it is. You can’t sit back and hope that spotify will pay a ‘fair’ amount. You have to play their game if you want to be on their services and make money.

            The world is not a moral place. That’s some liberal, art school, bullshit. I know, it sucks. Get over it.

          • Versus

            The world is not discovered, but created by us.
            It is as moral as we make it.

          • David

            “So playing my own songs on repeat 24×7, is a violation?!”

            Yes, of course. Let’s just spell out the comparison with click fraud. Anyone can set up a website, e.g. a blog, and sign up to an advertising service that places ads on the website and pays the owner a certain amount every time someone clicks on the ads. For obvious reasons the ToS of the service do not allow the owner himself to click on the ads, or to use some system (e.g. a botnet) that does it automatically. This is known as click fraud, and as I pointed out, it is a criminal offense in some jurisdictions.

            What you are doing with Spotify is arguably worse. In standard click fraud the people being defrauded are those who use the ad service to advertise their business, since they are paying money for worthless clicks. But it could be argued that this is a business risk they have chosen to take, and the rates charged for advertising will have factored in a certain percentage of worthless clicks. In the case of Spotify (and other streaming services), the people being defrauded are the other people who put their music on the streaming service, since any revenue that goes towards bogus streams means less money is available for genuine ones. And to make things worse, the streaming service has no strong motive to prevent the abuse, since they lose no money from it, and no-one else is in a position to detect it. If it isn’t already an offense it should be.

          • Anonymous

            The songs are, on average, are 1 minute. Some a little longer, some a little shorter. So playing my own songs on repeat 24×7, is a violation?! What if I wanted to play Drake songs 24×7? If spotify deems it as ‘suspicious’, they do pull the songs. But they still pay you. I’ve had probably 300 songs pulled in the past few years and I’ve been paid for all the plays I had up til the point of removal.

            And for those talking about the art…get the fuck out. ‘Art’ will never bring you any money. Who’s to say that these aren’t just garbage songs recorded under a pseudonym giving money that I can pour into my only ‘legitimate’ music?

            You all sit here and bitch how the .007/stream can’t sustain a music career. Well, for me, it is. You can’t sit back and hope that spotify will pay a ‘fair’ amount. You have to play their game if you want to be on their services and make money.

            The world is not a moral place. That’s some liberal, art school, bullshit. I know, it sucks. Get over it.

            I get where you are coming from Steve, i dont think its too immoral and like you say, you can stream your own music for your own listening pleasure, for sure, but of course those money players and majors and etc. will be all overvyou to play theirs and only theirs, thats what they do, they want customers and more customers, fans is just a fancy name to dupe younger people into coming out their wallet to buy stuff, so don’t take what i say too personally, im just tired of paying the price for people who are abusing something, so the reality is, i must instead take advantage and abuse something before it gets locked up to the point i pay the price for it, there seems to be no other way…

            Art, commerce, same thing to me, im not one of those dividing type people where theres commerce on one side and art on the other and all my lifes decision are based upon that, i dont care about that crap, im a MOR type guy as i find thats where all the balance is, to me you make Art and you try and sell it and it is commerce, but we have this weird propaganda war going on their and within music there are factions and divisions within the industry, within labels, its brutal, and they try and attack your brain and your ego to choose some side and then when you dont they sit on their side and throw stones at those in the middle yet are actually wanting to fight those who are on the other side, and they are trying to get people in their one life within a capatilistic society where prices always go up, to do everything for free, yet of course they are working some job or making some money, but they are still looking for people to dupe into some plan or agenda they have to get art back or to keep commerce intact, its stupid and lame, and is one of the big reasons i stay out of the music game as much as possible and for sure a big one why i never purse it or play anywhere, it makes no sense to me…

            All im saying is, at least make a song bud, even if its no good, at least make a normal length song, do your best within the time frame you have, otherwise its just plain bait, its like standing on the corner selling dime bags of weed, its just bait, super duper bait, and since i know how things work and play out, its only going to negatively affect everyone if you and others keep doing it like that, at least be smart about it…

            Otherwise you are right, the world stinks, make money, by any means necessary, this is the world we live in, this is the society we live in, and the most important and most influential people in our lives, the ones bantered around as our heroes and our saviors and the best and greatest and highest class god like figures, are the ones making the most money, the ones who can get other people to buy stuff, thats all that matters, make the most money and assume all the power and control, get all the women, live the life, dont make tons of money and this capitalistic society will outcast you as some terrorist or some villain, its all about money money money, so technically so long as everyone is still getting theirs you will be fine, and ultimately im sure the industry will love you because you are a money man making money and that is all the industry really cares about is money money money…

            All heil the all might dollar, woo hoo…

          • Steve

            Dear person who reported me to Spotify,

            Thank you for being the internet police. I really appreciate you taking the initiative and ruining the last 3 years of my work to vanish in a single day. FUCK YOU!

          • Anonymous

            not i steve, i dont do that, to me people are free to make their choices, however if it affects my person and my property, then i most certainly will, as you have seen, but for this, not my style…

        • Anonymous

          Your math (actually the charts math too) isn’t reality, as you don’t get a fixed rate… actually the more listens, the less each is worth… which is why directing fans to streaming sites (at least with their current business models) is brainless suicide.

          it all does average out though, and what may be brainless suicide to you, may not be to someone else…

          its getting a bit much, with the proliferation of the internet it gave a bunch of voiceless people a voice, and what has happened, is everyone seems to have this idea and belief that what they think, what they do, what they know, what they believe, everything, is what everyone else should be thinking and doing, we are all god, we are all the center of the world and the universe, the egotistical narcissistic immortal super deity, the all knowing all seeing, suddenly every last person is a leader, yet no one seems able to lead, we are all projecting ourselves upon other people, most people dont even listen anymore as they are too busy thinking about what they are going to say next, we are all just yelling up at the sky and never stopping to hear a pin drop, oh the internet, what a glorious joy…

          Reply
      • Anonymous


        not true. i spend $10/month for a spotify account and can play my songs on loop 24×7. at one minute each, i can get about 1,400 plays per day. and at $.007/stream, that’s $294/month. and that’s with one account…

        Hi… Well i certainly wasn’t referring to whatever it is you are doing…

        You see, i actually make music and care most about the mastery of the record and the song, and i was referring to the process of actually acquiring fans, getting it in front of people’s faces, not spinning one minute songs in an effort to make some money, ugh…

        I’m sorry, i’m not against someone streaming some of their songs in an effort to recuperate some money from their production spend, that makes sense, i am against these people who make junk and just upload a ton of garbage, short chunks of noise, to make money, that my friend, is low on the moral and value and ethical chain… I can’t stoop to those low levels of human class, if that is what the business of music is about, then thank you for the continued confirmation im making the correct choices…

        Reply
      • Anonymous

        it makes me wonder, who is doing what, who is real and who is not, who is legit and who is not…

        ultimately it inspires tracking and spying and ultimately it creates a further divide between sponsorship and record deals and everything…

        im trying real hard to place the blame of all my failures upon my own shoulders, as thats what a leader and a captain should do, but man oh man does it get hard some times…

        Technology isnt and never has been my problem, but now ive been essentially screwed out of two careers, back to back, simply due to greedy people abusing and misusing technology, and as a loving caring non violent man, im at a conundrum of what to do and say and how to act and carry on…

        I cannot take any more getting screwed over by people abusing technology, and of course its happening in my every day life outside of business and within careers, i cannot take much more of all this… How is a person supposed to generate a career and livelihood for themselves in this kind of society and world?? I dont want to lower myself to those levels, i do not want to engage in crime or lie lie lie all the time, i do not want to front or fraud or fake it to make it, i just want to do things right, educate and elevate myself to a level and have some damn security, i do not want to dump any more chunks of years into something only to end up getting screwed out of something due to people getting greedy and abusing technologies, especially when those people never pay the price, only i and those getting hurt do, and then there is no sympathy, no one cares or understands, its killing me, far too many times this kind of thing is happening, im about done doing anything anymore, its just not worth it…

        Reply
        • honorable

          good for you. seriously.
          what are we on this planet for? to acquire coins? or to learn, grow, challenge ourselves? keep making music — but perhaps do it soley for joy, not as a career. you write an amazing song, put it on youtube, and some person from a town in Utah (or Azerbaijan) sees it and posts that it gives them shivers. It cheered up their day. Maybe because of that, they acted kindly to someone else, and then that person helped someone in need…. etc etc. You might not get money for it, but you’ve had an impact (far more than that guy uploading hundreds of one minute songs that no one listens too.) And you’ve created something that is now out in the world forever, and over time, might reach, in a positive way, ten, hundreds, thousands of people. Maybe something you write inspires a future great musician. Even if it doesn’t: you had joy of making the art.

          Reply
          • Anonymous

            <i.good for you. seriously.
            what are we on this planet for? to acquire coins? or to learn, grow, challenge ourselves? keep making music — but perhaps do it soley for joy, not as a career. you write an amazing song, put it on youtube, and some person from a town in Utah (or Azerbaijan) sees it and posts that it gives them shivers. It cheered up their day. Maybe because of that, they acted kindly to someone else, and then that person helped someone in need…. etc etc. You might not get money for it, but you’ve had an impact (far more than that guy uploading hundreds of one minute songs that no one listens too.) And you’ve created something that is now out in the world forever, and over time, might reach, in a positive way, ten, hundreds, thousands of people. Maybe something you write inspires a future great musician. Even if it doesn’t: you had joy of making the art.'éi.

            Absolutely, that is correct!

            The benefits that exist from making music and sharing music can be plentiful and those are the things that keep me doing it…

            I never got into music for the money, i started looking into it because of constant and consistent pressures from others to pursue it and do it…

            As i`ve always said, if i can help just one person with my music, whatever and however that may be, then ultimately i am a success…

            The difficult part is that when consumed by the business of it all, only those who make money are successful, and the sheer nature of business thus forces them to make it well known publicly and then to also proactively go out and attack and defend, their enemies and their territory, and i get hammered with it all the time, so you have to take that into consideration as well…

            It`s when you start making money for other people and getting a lot of negativity back, sometimes due to illegal crimes committed against your person and property, that it then starts to negate all the good and wonderful that it does, to me and those who i do it for, as the more people take advantage of you the worse your attitude and mood gets and the worse you start treating other people by no fault of your own but rather just due to the sheer amount of it, its nearly impossible to avoid… It becomes like a boiling kettle, at some point that water reaches a certain temperature and then it just spouts off, since im mostly water, the same thing keeps occurring, its a destructive pattern and a bad cycle, and its hard to not get consumed by it or dragged down by it… That isnt good, that isnt fair to myself or to others, and if i find that the longer it goes on the more it affects who i am and who i act and what i say and how i treat people, then its no good, then the net affect starts trending towards being negative and away from being positive…

            So i have to make sure i am self aware and take myself out of myself and unbiasedly look at myself, if being in and doing music creates a situation that drags me down many levels to the point i start acting inappropriately for who i want and how i want to be, and start projecting negativity and anger etc. upon other people, then its not worth it, for anyone… There is just no way i can keep doing something for free while people actively use me in their money making schemes and then at the same time publicly attack and annihilate me, its not worth it, thats why im trying to find a way to amicably settle all of it, one way or another…

            I am not happy with how i am acting and how i am treating other people, im not happy how it has dragged me down and got me engaging in petty discourse of gossip and rumors, attacking people i havent met and do not know, saying things that just arent me and not who i am, at some point it becomes consuming and takes over your personality for good, and the more i fight it, the more that energy has to be released somewhere, and music is not the place i do that, so it has negative affects on others and myself as well my health… So it ends up being a big analyzing game, is music making me less or more the person i am and want to be, and while it has helped me in many ways, these last few years it has been mostly negative… This petty slandering and slagging, this cynicism, this negativity, this stone trowing and just bad energy that music and more so the business of music has done to me, its not healthy and far outweighs the good that it is doing…

      • Anonymous

        with everything thats happened to me in music and with so much stuff like that and so many people like you, this is why youll never see me drop a dime of money time or energy into getting a show up to par and then of course going out and doing it, its not worth it anymore and im starting to wonder if it ever was…

        ultimately i guess thanks to you and the industry for ensuring that ill never spend much money or take any risks in it, its not worth it, im not interested in fame and thats about all she can offer me anymore…

        because everyone looks to me to be some free guy and give them everything, but they already stripped me down, i took my shirt off for them and turned my other cheek, but theres no more to give, theres no more to do, theres no career or path to go down in music anymore, terrible shame…

        Reply
      • missing point

        you are actually proving the point that it has nothing to do with music. your one minute track is created to game streaming, not created as music. your only reason is to make money.

        and spotify etc. all have algorithms… if one song is played 24/7 by one ip, they know it’s unsual and against the fine print. at some point it’ll be stopped, so it’s not viable plan more than short term (months).

        also: i wonder how much electricity you’re using? 12 hours of your computer running while you’re sleeping or eating or not using it anyway? must cost some money. and your internet bill — i wonder if you have unlimited bandwith, etc etc. , or are paying for that. maybe you’re decreasing the life of your device, etc etc.

        anyway, who makes money from gaming the system? the companies that are quickly set up to game that system, sell you plays, or friends etc. which is what you probably are promoting.

        Reply
  4. D'Michael

    I’m a little confused for YT. People make money off the monetization of videos, NOT per play, right?

    Reply
    • Stark Hazard

      In short, you can earn money from both YouTube monetization and per play on YouTube. In addition YouTube’s Music Key, YouTube Sync Licensing, and YouTube’s content ID system, are all ways to broaden your ability to snatch your Greenbacks out of the YouTube æther. CD baby offers a great breakdown/description of how it all works on their website.

      Reply
      • Anonymous

        You earn money per click-through, not per play, on YouTube.

        I also doubt you can use Content ID to monetize user generated audio content if you use CD baby. You can’t if you use Audiam or Tunecore (at least not if you use sample-based keyboards or sample libraries in your music, and most artists do that today).

        And you can’t use Audiam/Tunecore/Content ID to monetize user generated visual content under any circumstances.

        So Youtube always keeps all your user generated revenue from all your visual work if you use aggregators like Tunecore.

        Reply
        • JTVDigital

          “You earn money per click-through, not per play, on YouTube.”
          This is correct, and incorrect.
          YouTube (Google) make money with ads.
          In the case of a monetized video, revenue is generated when a user takes an action on an advertisement (clicks through), or when a non-skippable pre-roll advertisement is run prior to a video streaming.
          So technically ad-related revenue can be earned either by click-through or by pre-roll ad play.

          “I also doubt you can use Content ID to monetize user generated audio content if you use CD baby”
          Yes they do offer Content ID monetization via their partnership with Rumblefish, as far as I know, which gives their clients the option to monetize UGC.

          Reply
          • Anonymous

            Yes, let’s put it like this: Youtube pays per ad you watch, not per play.

            I’m not personally familiar with CD Baby/Rumblefish, but I assume they have the same rules as Audiam and Tunecore. Which means that most artists can’t use them to monetize user generated audio.

            And I doubt that CD Baby/Rumblefish customers can monetize user generated visual content under any circumstances.

            So again: Youtube always keeps all your user generated revenue from your visual work if you use aggregators like Tunecore.

          • Ray

            Yes. With CD Baby they do collect the user generated content that uses your audio. That’s the whole point of the program. That’s why YouTube’s content ID system exists. I’ve actually seen son decent bumps in income based on what my fans have used on YouTube .

          • Anonymous

            Yes, what?

            Are you saying that you can actually use CD Baby to monetize the audio part of videos used in un-authorized Youtube uploads?

            Again, Audiam and Tunecore can’t do that in most cases.

            So don’t you use sample-based keyboards/sample libraries? Or is it OK with CD Baby to monetize songs that have non-exclusive samples in them?

  5. JTVDigital

    Why changing the headline? To get more clicks? Fair enough.
    The “real” title of this post should be “How much do music artists earn online?”, like it is stipulated on the infographic.
    The minimum wage thing is just a point of reference, something to make the figures understandable by the public.
    Also note this is for a “solo” artist.
    A band would have to sell 4-5 times more so that each can make that minimum wage.
    Also some figures are wrong, some are too optimistic, but it does not really matter.
    Only a fool would consider that selling recorded music is ht eonly way to make money for an artist.
    So let’s ask the question again: “How a Musician Can Earn Minimum Wage In 2015…?”
    Answer: selling music online (see above infograhic), touring / shows, licensing, merchandising / D2F record sales at shows, brand endorsements, publishing, studio sessions, composing/producing music for others (collaborations)…etc…etc.

    Reply
  6. David

    As there is so little hard data on what musicians get from streaming services (with Zoe Keating as a shining exception) I was interested to come across this post by American singer-songwriter Levi Weaver: http://leviweaver.com/blog/2013/02/14/what-does-an-indie-get-paid-4-spotify/

    This one just deals with Spotify, but there are links to earlier posts. (The promised post on profit margins on merchandise does not seem to have appeared.) There are also links to various other reports, including one including a comment by a Spotify spokesman which appears to admit that major labels get better payout rates than others, which I don’t think Spotify has ‘officially’ admitted. As Levi Weaver points out, a lot of dubious facts can be covered up by the word ‘approximately’.

    Reply
  7. so

    These streaming numbers (besides being incorrect in places) are not useful. The Beats numbers are just plain wrong, but the main point is that the Beats / Tidal / etc. rates are higher than Spotify and YouTube because they have far fewer users / streams.

    Reply
  8. Sean

    All this streaming data can be verified on ARIA, http://royaltyguru.com/ a free online tool the shows you where all your royalties are coming from around the world and how much each source is paying you per spin. Even better, it shows you how much you are getting compared to an average of all other songs. Everyone in the industry should be using this tool.

    Reply
  9. Lifelong working PRO

    This entire set up is disingenuous. I’m a 60 yr old working musician, show producer and promoter, foh sound person, etc. I work mostly with those who earn reasonable money performing. If you want to earn a living with music stop looking where there is no money, and stop wishing it were not that way. Get in front of the people face to face. You may or may not earn a full time living (most don’t) but in today’s economic world, earning an additional $500-$700 a month part time isn’t bad. I haven’t done anything else in the past 15 yrs. Several of my friends haven’t done anything else in 20-30 years. It can be done. There are ways

    Reply
    • Anonymous

      “If you want to earn a living with music stop looking where there is no money, and stop wishing it were not that way. Get in front of the people face to face. You may or may not earn a full time living (most don’t) but in today’s economic world, earning an additional $500-$700 a month part time isn’t bad. I haven’t done anything else in the past 15 yrs. Several of my friends haven’t done anything else in 20-30 years. It can be done. There are ways’

      Of course it’s still possible, but its a lickle more complicated then that…

      For me, i cant justify spending thousands of dollars and taking months of time just to get a tiny fee from a bar to sell tins of beer to their customers, all while i have to employ numerous people in order to effectively and properly do the job right, it doesn’t make sense, it’s a non starter…

      So if you are fine just showing up hopping on stage with a corded mic and the house lights up and maybe a live mixer and a backpack of your tshirts and cd’s all for a tiny wee fee, then fly at it, but for me, that doesnt meet my level of standards and it isnt doing it right… Lest we forget how much did you have to put out for those tshirts and those cd’s that perhaps the small fee doesnt recuperate?

      If its all a business and the bar needs to draw in people to sell alcohol and possibly ticket fees, likely to make a decent profit for the night, i need more then just a couple beers and a hundred dollars in the hand all in the name of having some fun… I dont bang houses together for fun, you dont see me out in a vest shoveling with the city boys for fun, im not out there mowing lawns for fun or sitting in a retail store selling shirts for fun, that ish aint fun to me, work is work and you make the best of it, but fun work comes through a multitude of things that balance out to make it fun, what you suggest doesnt sound like much fun to me…

      Unfortunately for those of us who might think like i do, its a constant banging the head against a wall type feeling, as the industry has their ideas of how someone should do it and how someone should chase their career and then screw with your life trying to get you to do it, all the while never just stepping up and calling someone or talking to someone about it, its ridiculous and stupid… They have their wheels set up, their little boxes set up, their little units set up, their little thing where they turn and burn people in an attempt to get people to a point they can really turn a profit off of them, and so you have to start opening for free with no show or anything and then working that out super hard all in hopes that some industry chronie will see potential and finally step in and offer some kind of one sided deal, i mean, they all seem so stuck in that box, and they fight and fight and fight anyone who thinks otherwise or wants to do it otherwise, its a disaster, a total and complete disaster…

      At least all this pertains to those of us who are not rich or trust fund kids/people…

      That’s all a lot of money, money money money money money, it just doesnt make sense, you really have to want to be someone, you really have to want to need that title that admiration for that job, you really need to want that attention and that fame, without those qualities, its a loser all the way and the light at the end of the tunnel is just not for anyone thus not justifying the expenditure of time and money and blood sweat and tears to get there…

      Personally i cant justify all that expenditure and all that work for a few hundred a month, all while im out MILLIONS from the same industry, it just leaves a bad taste in the mouth, i cant justify it, not like that, not that way…

      Ultimately though you are correct, it is still doable, its just some of us are in precarious positions where there are a lot of factors in play that make it not worthwhile…

      Reply
      • Lifelong working PRO

        i cant justify spending thousands of dollars and taking months of time just to get a tiny fee from a bar to sell tins of beer to their customers,

        some of us are in precarious positions where there are a lot of factors in play that make it not worthwhile…

        With all due respect my brother – you’re either doing it all for the WRONG reasons, or you’re in the WRONG business.

        There are those of us who do this because we’re compelled to do it, and several I know in our 50s and 60s who are earning $16,000 a yr (min wage in US) or more doing it. And we’re not just doing it at bars, which my family and I have owned or managed more than a couple of. I’d love to share just exactly what the profit is on 100 people. That would make you gulp and shake your head a bit cuz it ain’t what you think.

        Reply
        • Anonymous

          With all due respect my brother – you’re either doing it all for the WRONG reasons, or you’re in the WRONG business.

          I’m certainly not doing it for the wrong reasons, i make music because i love it, i got into it because i love it, and just because i dont want to cover the costs to entertain people and help other businesses operate all while playing the same songs over and over again night after night, does not mean im doing it for the wrong reasons…

          Im not in the wrong business, the business is just treating me wrong, and they still to this day try and attack the ego and the pride, they constantly try and make someone feel bad for looking at it like a business, to try and get someone to do it for free or for the love, i could go on and on and on, im sick of you people like that, its a business and thats the way it is, deal with it… You certain group of people who want everyone to be jesus is just brutal and tired, stop attacking people with your scathing attacks and trying to get them to work their butts off covering all the costs for a paltry yearly income, and certainly do not insist someone stops making music if they are not willing to cover all the costs and work like a slave just so everyone else can benefit, i dont think so…

          Ive dealt with all yalls b.s. for too many years now, so maybe i am in the wrong business, i must be, all it does is straight rape me, constantly, and then kicks me afterwards and treats me like dirt, yall people need to seriously grow up already, wow…


          There are those of us who do this because we’re compelled to do it, and several I know in our 50s and 60s who are earning $16,000 a yr (min wage in US) or more doing it. And we’re not just doing it at bars, which my family and I have owned or managed more than a couple of. I’d love to share just exactly what the profit is on 100 people. That would make you gulp and shake your head a bit cuz it ain’t what you think.

          Im not here to tell people what to do and what not to do nor am i here to judge peoples choices or tell them what they should be, all i ask is the same in return…

          Im not interested in ruining my love for music all to work my ass off playing the same songs over and over again to people who generally dont care midst a bunch of people who want to exploit or take advantage of me, all so i can make minimum wage, im not compelled to be a moron for strangers attention, sorry…

          I love music, thats why i do it, i feel compelled to make music, nothing more, beyond that is a business and i will use my business sense to make my decisions…

          Music right now has some big issues and some weird frightening circles where they are demanding people sacrifice for their little club or whatever it is by forgoing income and other opportunities and essentially work for nothing and cover all expenses, all to satiate someone elses plan or agenda about what they think should or shouldnt be happening, its pathetic, i see right through yalls little games and little factions…

          How do you know what i think the profit on 100 people is? I never stated what i thought it was, so you must be one of those mind readers, so what am i thinking of right now??

          I refuse to play that role the lefesetz and old boys want people to play, all for the love of something? i dont think so, yall just have your little agenda and are still trying to fill roster positions but dont want to tell anyone what your plans are, i make my decisions and my mind up, im not some delusional flippant needing damaged arteest that is willing to sacrifice for someone elses plan…

          Im a business man, i make my decisions based upon business, and if im going to make $20000/year, im not going to ruin my health and my life doing it like that, thank you very much, ill find other ways, keep my work load down and my hours down, and enjoy being a recording artist and running my own ship, how i see fit, under my direction, retaining my love for the music…

          Reply
          • Lifelong working PRO

            Sorry brother. I meant no personal offense. This BUSINESS is all I’ve ever known. I have worked with literally a few thousand acts in my lifelong career. That you do it for love is exactly why any of us do what we do. I too am a business person, literally. I’ve seen those who make money, and how they do it, and those who starve for many reasons. I’m just in this life to help folks try to figure it out.

  10. indie label guy

    The chart is VERY misleading. What about costs? What folks really need to know is how to make a PROFIT equal to a minimum wage job. With a self release, sure you get to keep all the revenue, but you also have to pay all the costs. Recording, manufacturing, excess inventory, scrap, promotion, sales taxes, etc etc. With a label deal, the label pays most of that, hence their participation in the revenue stream.

    Some folks can do everything all at once, most of us cannot. Whether you self-release or sign a label deal, you will need a team to be successful, and that team has to get paid somehow.

    So, read this chart with that in mind and it could be useful. Don’t read it and then believe that you can bank that 12/per CD and pay the rent with it. It’s way more complex than that!

    Reply
  11. Lifelong working PRO

    i totally agree with indie label guy.

    until the 21st century it was virtually unheard of for a “local band” to self-record. Too many in the past decade have believed there’s profit in a recording when there rarely has ever been. Profit has always been in the aggregate values, not the singular expense. The real challenge for most of us in business has been explaining how it all works to those who are not business oriented.

    Reply
  12. Content Creator

    Hi everyone,
    i’m currently developing a new platform intended for musicians to form a community around content creation, where we can financially support each other by collaborating and remixing each others works online, and then pay each other for stem downloads and project mixdowns.

    In light of the recent debates over Tidal and trying to find ways for middle class musicians to earn money for their work, i’d like to throw out my companys pitch to you and see what you think about what we’re offering:

    Who are we?:
    We are a crowdsourced music platform that allows amateur and professional musicians to collaborate, remix, and monetize their original works online.

    What do we know? :
    Music simply means more to people who create it. Rather than focusing our efforts on convincing music listeners to pay for music, we are finding ways for creators to support each other by doing what they love best; making music.

    What is our mission?:
    To establish sustainable revenue streams through collaboration and content creation.

    We offer 3 value propositions:

    1) Collaborate: We enable artists to collaborate more efficiently by crowdsourcing musical ideas online. Users can simply upload pieces of a song, then have others build unto it by uploading or recording their own sounds below the project ‘source track’.

    2) Remix: By incorporating beat matching technology that enables sounds of different speeds and pitches to match instantaneously; we’re leveling the playing field for all creators, and opening the doors for a multitude of cross genre ideas.

    3) Monetize: Through micro-transactions for stem downloads and project mix-downs; musicians have an ability to generate revenue from their contributions, remixes, and shared works.

    Encompassing all of these great features is an innovative copyright system that is seamlessly integrated into our social platform; providing maximum control for our original creators, yet reasonable flexibility for our remixers.

    Overall our mission is to establish an open and collaborative culture amongst professional and amateur musicians, making it easier than ever for you to monetize your songs from every stage of the creative process. We believe that this platform can become a new ecosystem for content creators.

    I would really like to get your feedback. Would you use this platform? (Why or why not?), What are the most important features you would need to use this platform?

    Thanks!

    Reply

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published.

Verify Your Humanity *