Lily Allen: “Tidal Will Make Fans Swarm Back to Piracy…”

What happens when you double the price, and restrict access to the best stuff?

lilyallentidal

48 Responses

  1. Yep

    She has said precisely what the entire world is thinking.

    Google the track now. UMG are ripping down versions on YT, but web pages are appearing EVERYWHERE with the full stream.

    It’s highly irresponsible of them to do this, but, it might only damage the ‘Tidal 16’

    Would the business survive with the Tidal 16?:)

    Reply
    • Or Else They'll Steal It!

      The pirates never migrated to Spotify in any signifcant numbers. Broadband keeps increasing, piracy keeps increasing. Bit-Torrent is less than 1% non-infringing (99% Illegal).

      Stop it with the Stockholm Syndrome. There’s a reason Netflix is NOT Spotify for good reason. The film business is much smarter than the record business…

      Reply
  2. Name2

    $20 is too much!!1!
    $10 isn’t enough!!~1

    [SQUAWK!]

    STFU, already.

    Reply
  3. J.Twi5t

    Can’t ever trust someone who misspells “so” with “soon.” By the way, stop bitching about what the labels won’t give you; go directly to the streaming service and take your chances at negotiation with them…

    Reply
  4. Anonymous

    there’s nothing wrong with making music with crappy studio monitors, if it sounds good on them its going to translate well across most listening devices and environments, heck the NS10 is regarded as the holy grail of studio monitors and they sound like garbage… I always did some time with the dollar store ear buds in just to make sure it translates well onto those, now im at the point i can use pretty much anything and get it sounding crisp across the board, all being subjective of course…

    i think she needs to take a look at the big picture, and streaming and high fidelity streaming is a step in the right direction, the caveat for me will be the distributors and aggregators, and unless they start accepting higher quality files, the whole tidal and pono thing isn’t going to work across the board, but its all a good start…

    the thing she needs to remember here is the competition in that field is gargantuan, so i dont think what they want for a membership is going to do anything to anyone, as you can go to spotify or rdio or deezer or take your pick, some free some not and the people are only going to pirate what they cant get, so it isnt like its going to create some massive flood back to pirating because of a couple of exclusives… they will also be making money on youtube from anyone uploading those songs, that model is working for artists like beyonce as we all saw with some of her older stuff and the proliferation of massive amounts of user generated dance videos pushing her up the new fangled charts…

    for someone getting tens of millions of spins per song, first she should understand the business fine, and she should be doing just fine from streaming, so if she isnt, shes got a bad deal or doesnt get the math or else gave too much of it away… otherwise audit your label then… what im guessing is she sees the spins and figures her cut isnt enough, im guessing thats what most of them are on about, when all it takes is looking at the contract they negotiated and signed and then doing the math, easy peasy…

    i mean, cmon girl, you get tens of millions of views and spins, the new artist cant even get anywhere anymore or build anything anymore, so it would be real nice if all you super rich already well off artists actually did something to help your business, your people, your industry, your fellow creatives, to give back to the youth and the up and comers and not just those who are on your record and who are on your label, but thats just the way it is…

    Reply
  5. Anonymous

    Best part is what she says about good headphones.

    Who cares about CD quality streaming when you can’t hear it?

    Reply
    • Anonymous

      You could be one of those people who didnt know who Paul McCartney was, slagged him off for tying his name to Kanyes stardom and then figured Paul McCartney was going to be made by kanye west and went to the twittersphere to let the world know how lucky sir paul was to have someone like kanye make his career for him, that was pretty funny seeing the young ones talk so arrogantly and snidely about it, quite possibly one of the funniest things i’ve seen in awhile…

      Reply
  6. David

    I don’t think we should expect facts or logic from Lily Allen, but we should expect them from DMN. So, ‘what happens when you double the price and restrict access to the best stuff’? I don’t know, but what has this to do with Tidal? Tidal has a standard tier at the same price as Spotify, and nothing in the linked report says that ‘access to the best stuff’ will be restricted. Conceivably, artists who window their new releases at the moment may give earlier access to Tidal (I’m just guessing), but that would be *extending* access, not restricting it. Incidentally, Spotify made a great deal of publicity out of its exclusive deals with the likes of Led Zeppelin, so why didn’t they get the same flak? Where journalistic standards are concerned, DMN’s motto seems to be ‘make mine a double’.

    Reply
    • GGG

      It’s the exact backlash I (and many others I’m sure) knew would happen. They may have the fans, but putting a bunch of millionaires on a stage making a statement about treating artists fairly was a stupid idea. Any person with half a brain (or not living in a bubble of riches) should have been able to see this reaction coming.

      Ego got in the way of principle. At the most, have Jay-Z, and maybe Beyonce up there for the press, but the biggest act up there besides them should have been Win Butler. Then a bunch of smaller, but still well-known indies.

      Reply
      • GGG

        First of all, you can’t say “it might fail and lose” and then call it a smart move. If it fails it was clearly not a smart move. And anyway, I’m not saying the concept of Tidal, or having loaded celebs back it is stupid, I explicitly said the way they publicized the launch was stupid.

        And secondly, you severely underestimate the indie scene. Just because you spend 24/7 whining about Justin Beiber and Taylor Swift stealing your shitty song, doesn’t mean there’s not an incredibly strong indie market.

        But regardless, my point was, and still is, if you are going to make a big speech about treating artists fairly, don’t stand a handful of people collectively worth probably a billion dollars on stage. People aren’t going to take that well. As we’re seeing.

        Reply
          • Anonymous

            First of all, you can’t say “it might fail and lose” and then call it a smart move. If it fails it was clearly not a smart move. And anyway, I’m not saying the concept of Tidal, or having loaded celebs back it is stupid, I explicitly said the way they publicized the launch was stupid.

            And secondly, you severely underestimate the indie scene. Just because you spend 24/7 whining about Justin Beiber and Taylor Swift stealing your shitty song, doesn’t mean there’s not an incredibly strong indie market.

            But regardless, my point was, and still is, if you are going to make a big speech about treating artists fairly, don’t stand a handful of people collectively worth probably a billion dollars on stage. People aren’t going to take that well. As we’re seeing.

            Sorry, There was no reply rant..

            Sure i can GGG, i can say it might fail and lose and also at the same time call it a smart move, and i stand by it….

            The nature of business allows me to say it was a smart move but one that could fail, its complex and layered, and most businesses do fail, but many people succeed along the way…

            Sometimes GGG you move a pawn on the board in an effort to set up a move 8 plays later, so the pawn might fall, but checkmate might come on that 8th play, that is a metaphor that works in a few ways on a few levels…

            I know you said how they publicized the launch was stupid, and i disagreed with you and gave my reasons why, with their demographics and their main customers, its a fine play…

            haha i figured you might get a little bent from my indy comment, speaking of whining, you indies sure do whine and whine and never do, anyways, im indy, so i said what i did in an effort to try and lead by example and show that i comment unbiasedly, and when indy, what i said stands, theres little love and no one cares much, the indie scene is very toxic… Ultimately i like indies, and its tough because in being in the business, its been really tough to retain my love for music and to put all the hate and anger and jealousy et all that i get and to keep on liking and loving and listening to all kinds of music, its becoming too much, its ultimately a drain…

            You can of course use examples to prove that what i say about the indies in regards to no one caring being false, but you are drawing conclusions and making assumptions and connecting the wrong dots from a vague sentence that leaves out much detail… In a market share dominated by the majors, the indies are on the short end of the stick when it comes to many many things, and we see it all the time, just a factual statement delivered in a bit of way, the truth hurts, the best part of it is, as i said above, im indy as well so it applies to me and isnt some slag off on indies because you think i dont like them, its just the reality of being indy in this economy and society that i have learned through experience…

            I dont whine about Bieber and Taylor 24/7 over one song you dont like, which is fine, she had little to do with that song if anything at all, i just poke and tease her because she is currently the top gunner, i aim at the top, thats what i do, and as far as music goes, i just make the stuff, if people choose to like it or not that is their decision, it doesnt bother me that you dont like it, id probably like a lot of your stuff, even with you hating mine, doesnt matter to me, all that it truly does is let me know you arent really reading, digesting or listening, and also not in the loop where the stuff happens, it means you are just skimming for something to attack me with, and thats also fine and cool, i dont expect anything from you GGG, the incredible vastness of what has happened to me and is still happening to me would frankly blow your mind, and being a fellow indy, im hard on the indy scene because as a fellow indy you should be in my corner as im currently the center of one of the biggest music business controversies in the history of the business that would benefit indies to know more of and possibly get involved in, but instead its just more infighting and competing and slagging and misery and jealousy and stone tossing etc., and yet because its so crazy i have to pinch myself and slap myself and question myself constantly, as it seems like it cant be real, but it is, i live it, its my life, it sucks, theres nothing to be jealous of or bitter over here, and i have proof and evidence, and its my whole body of work, unreleased and unpublished, some no one should ever hear, and they all know what they did and what is going on, its something that needs to be resolved for them too, and im sorry that its me and im sorry that it happened and im terribly sorry it bothers you so much, but the incredible disrespect i get from the indy community midst such a fiasco only goes to further substantiate many of my claims of their lack of business acumen among other things, yall should have been all over this, its a terrible shame, but to be expected…

            That is why i choose to say what i say and do what i do and that is why i can say that while it could fail, its a smart move… Sometimes GGG you move a pawn on the board in an effort to set up a move 8 plays later, so the pawn might fall, but checkmate might come on that 8th play, that is a metaphor that works in a few ways on a few levels…

            But who else would know about artists and being treated friendly on the sort of scale and depth needed?

            I instead give you the real reasons why they might not be the best or the most trusted, and instead you choose to throw that angrily back in my face, which again is a terrible shame…

            i again apologize GGG, believe me pretty much the last option i had was to online come out of the closet with what has and is happening to me, i figured i would get what i got from it, but it had to be done, and if you ask Paul, maybe he will give you every post and then i can send you a video that shows how very little of my life is consumed with bieber and taylor and that one song that i told you about, that you clearly know is a legit claim, and thats without the rest of the details, and thats just one tiny wee little bit of it, and that alone, while im a bit elusive and hard to follow and sometimes a bit all over the place, should be enough to give me legitimacy to what i claim when i claim it a certain way, so that is also disappointing…

            im not one to name drop to get somewhere, its not my style, and thats why coming out like i did was a last option, because once i go there, there is no bringing it back, there is no music path left for me, so it was about the last play i had, and i apologize, we are all here right now just trying to make the best of things, im trying to make the best of things, thats all man, i wish it wasnt so…

            im no fraud or charlatan or scammer, i dont look to get something for nothing, i sacrificed a lot and worked my but off, and i was a victim of crimes, albeit white collar and a little kind of grey right now due to the proliferation of the internet, the surveillance and the widespread property theft that is happening, which makes it even funnier that people have trouble believing what i say, a victim of crimes that have left me in a tough spot and out a lot of money, and it frustrates me even more because im still getting hammered about so many things, i dont even like to talk about it because it ultimately becomes a non starter… i can barely even talk with my friends and family about it, and while they believe me, it gets awkward and its just beyond most peoples capacities to understand and to believe, most people just dont want to, even with the long list of past cases of similar happenings, and its tough for so many as my daily life is quite tame and most of it was done in a more aloof manner in digital land where its a current wild wild west, anyways, besides im not about to ruin my life in an effort to get people to believe me, i just wish they would…

            One day id have to think this story will come out, maybe you will still be alive GGG and then you can go, damn, i was right there involved in that talking with that guy anonymously over the internet, woah…

          • GGG

            1. Please, for the love of god, Google ‘run on sentences.’ I read about 10% of this post then starting having a seizure.

            2. As I’ve said a million times, if your claims are true, write some big expose and have it published here or Billboard or Rolling Stone or something. Or take them to court. If this is even half as big as you claim, lawyers will be lining up to do pro bono work for some back end payout. And that’s why I don’t believe you; there is no reason why your only course of action is waiting for them to make things right, and posting about it ambiguously.

          • Anonymous

            “I read about 10% of this post then starting having a seizure.”

            Perhaps he’ll haunt another forum if we stop talking to him?

            (Forgive us Gearslutz/Hypebot/Billboard, but we just couldn’t take it anymore…)

          • Anonymous

            Perhaps he’ll haunt another forum if we stop talking to him?

            Im just minding my own business flying at 30000 feet here, you all choose to engage me, and when that happens, i have to take evasive action and try and put the lock on you and pull the trigger, thats what we do, if you choose to take your outdated little migs and go bother someone else that will be just fine to me, but continue to swarm me like a scene straight out of ‘Top Gun’, and you will be Ice Manned and Mavericked on like nobodies business, ill pull the brakes and youll fly right on by and then its sayonara brudda…

            Thank-you and have a wonderful day…

          • GGG

            You are not remotely as clever as you think you are.

          • Anonymous

            You are not remotely as clever as you think you are.

            Im sorry GGG, i dont quite understand what you mean but i am interested to obtain a better understanding…

            Im not interested in any more verbal fisticuffs or slag fests, but i dont know what you mean, how exactly do you think im thinking that im clever?

            Im just trying to be funny and entertaining for my fans and my followers, thats all, i wasnt aware there was anything clever to it at all… Just a writing style and a language, thats all…

          • Anonymous

            1. Please, for the love of god, Google ‘run on sentences.’ I read about 10% of this post then starting having a seizure.

            2. As I’ve said a million times, if your claims are true, write some big expose and have it published here or Billboard or Rolling Stone or something. Or take them to court. If this is even half as big as you claim, lawyers will be lining up to do pro bono work for some back end payout. And that’s why I don’t believe you; there is no reason why your only course of action is waiting for them to make things right, and posting about it ambiguously.

            1. That is the hope GGG and why i now post like i do and write like i do, surprisingly, so that you wont make it through and that most people will not take the time to read it…

            I mean, GGG, i’m a scholarly genius bud, if you would prefer i resort to astute pedantry in an attempt to appease the reading class by ensuring my syntax, spelling grammar are simply impeccable, pay me… Otherwise i will continue to write how i write when i write, thanks!

            2. Which is fine, you are not obligated to believe me, you don’t know me, are not in my life, do not exist in my world, have not experienced what i have, do not know all the facts and all the details, are not reading or listening to what i say, as ive explained numerous times many of the details in a SWOT analysis of the current situation, you are not in the same genres dealing with the same people that i do, therefore you merely toss armchair opinions about what you think someone should and would do in this situation… You are entitled to believe what you want but its clear you dont understand strategy, this is a contingency plan and this was the last course of action… and

            Im not waiting for them to do anything, im living my life and enjoying it as best i can…

            To me this is only further confirmation of the real reasons people treat me like they do and react like they do when i suggest such a thing, and ultimately, it leads to one unfortunate conclusion, i have to leave all music and all business all the way out of my life, and every last single person in it or enjoying it, there’s no solution that is going to work when this is what continually happens over and over and over again…

            I mean this GGG guy doesn’t understand about trackers? He doesnt understand about STANS? He doesnt get surveillance? He doesnt know what his own industry is up to, when and how and who? Who gives him business? What artists even work with this guy? Crazy… He doesnt understand about high level competition and high stakes top class business and industry?

            He hasnt been there through this whole thing so to have to deal with a millisecond of anything he has to bother me about is rather frustrating, luckily for him and his little indie cronies here trying to dominant the territory so his little crew can have their say as they hold out their hats and toss tiny pebbles at the castle doors, begging for another piece of bread to be tossed out into the dirty streets, scratching at the door oh ye lords of thine manor oh please let me shine thine shoes for a nickle, i mean, get out the way and watch a pro work, you blast the damn door down you run in guns a blazing and you take names after the dust has settled, all this crying and whining about fractions of a penny midst great places people could be having intelligent conversations like educated and passionate people who care about the big picture all to the point something constructive and positive could happen, instead him and his little indie pals are out there playing Outsiders rolling by on their rollerblades clinking their knives on the gated fence with their faces painted like some schoolyard bullies who are getting beat by their dad at home and feel they will take it out on some people just sitting around having a good time, its unbelievable… I got a Gatling gun at the door a locked and loaded heat seeking missile ready to be fired to take out the whole damn block, quit rattling your little trinket knives on my fence ya dig!!! Same as anywhere, the lower levels of the industry is just so brutal and scam filled with little circles of wannabes and shills and peddlers ruining lives and wasting time trying to sell garbage to morons…

            Its a few tens of billions of an industry just swarmed with people, and music wants to just fight itself and each-other, when being such a tiny small potatoes wee little minute and essentially infinitesimal industry it has to be working together, its unbelievable, welcome to my life…

          • GGG

            So let me get this straight. Enormously famous people stole your music. They are stalking you and tapping your communications and bugging your electronics. Yet you won’t sue, you won’t call the cops, you’re just “living your life.” Makes total sense. Got it.

            And you’re definitely not a crazy person. Definitely not.

          • Anonymous

            So let me get this straight. Enormously famous people stole your music. They are stalking you and tapping your communications and bugging your electronics. Yet you won’t sue, you won’t call the cops, you’re just “living your life.” Makes total sense. Got it.

            And you’re definitely not a crazy person. Definitely not.

            Hi GGG,

            I went to the Police, talked with two high up Detectives, in the capitol city of my Province, and none of them had anything to offer, knew nothing of copyright infringement or intellectual property theft, and only kept pressuring me about drugs over 4 kilos… It was a bit peculiar, and they were a bit dumbfounded to say the least…

            Any Lawyers or Private Detectives ive talked to are either not interested in Pro Bono, are too expensive for me to currently afford, or else want nothing to do with it…

            I never said the famous people were talking and tapping my communications and bugging my electronics, but yes some of them have most certainly stolen my music, which i dont care about if its been released or published, its the unreleased and unpublished music they took that they then used as inspiration and motivation to make theirs, that subsequently went to the charts, and that they made a bunch of money off… Some of that is my money, if you have any plausible suggestions on how to get it, im all ears…

            Im not interested in suing right now as the way i look at it it would be similar to Robert Kearns going after Ford for stealing his windshield wiper invention… Everyone thought he was crazy, treated hum like you treat me, and ultimately due to his determination and tenacity, he ultimately won and received settlement, however, it significantly ruined his life and his health and his relationships… Lest we forget someone in those circles just got killed not to long ago, it can be a violent business, and while im not scared, is it really worth it?

            The media and the show and those famous peoples trolls absolutely annihilate anyone who says anything and certainly anyone that sues them or possibly damages their image or reputation, and i mean fully annihilates them, im not so sure im interested in dealing with that… Once they dig back into my life there are a few things they can really humiliate me with, which they love doing, health related matters and nothing criminal or anything, and im not really interested in being beat up for years by the likes of some of their media people…

            Furthermore you have to look at how the court system works, since i cant assume they would settle out of court, i have to figure if its all worth it, what my chances are of easily winning, as even OJ can get off the hook given the right circumstances, so is it worth it, cause if by chance i lose, im on the hook for a gargantuan lawyers bill, mine and theirs, and while theres no reason id lose, you always have to consider it a possibility knowing how things work…

            Also we live in a surveillance state right now, everyone is bugged, everything is tapped… Im not some paranoid crazy person, although my music can certainly make some think like that, regardless what you think, so either you dont want to believe the reality of the world we live in, or you have other motives for constantly attacking my image, character and reputation… Ive also given a lot of people over the years. some law enforcement, a lot of reasons to be all over me, for things ive done and people ive associated with, but im hardly a criminal, its a complicated and long story that would get lost over the internet…

            If you really want to work this out with me so you can have a better understanding of why i say what i say and have chosen what i have chosen, then by all means im down, but please dont just assume something without knowing the full spectrum of the story here and all the facts, leading back decades, that leads me to say some of the things i say…

            Im not saying im some angel here, but my hands are pretty clean and while i may have given them some reason to justify a bit of what they did to me, they have persisted for years and years now beyond that point, they went way overboard…

            This is not some hype play GGG, not at all, i cant stand that kind of marketing and promotion, believe me, i tried so many different ways to settle this, im really truly terribly sorry to have to do it like this…

        • Sarah

          I was going to reply, but you’ve covered everything really well.

          One side point: not sure exactly what you were responding to with “if it fails it was clearly not a smart move” but that’s not technically correct as a matter of evaluating decisions. “Moves” are most appropriately evaluated based on the options and information available at the time the moves are made – with the result that something can fail, but still have been a smart move.

          Consider the context of poker, where there are “correct” plays based on statistics, the value of the pot, etc. It’s like going all-in heads up preflop with pocket aces: you can lose (and will a certain percentage of times), but losing doesn’t change the fact that it was the right move.

          But in Tidal’s case, no matter how you evaluate it, the way they publicized this launch was almost certainly a bad move. 🙂

          Reply
          • Anonymous

            and yet Sarah you forget that 1 unhappy customer will tell 10 times as many people as one satisfied customer…

            all they need/needed is more awareness and hype, so an initial slag fest that gets everyone talking at least puts TIDAL in peoples minds, who will eventually stop slagging and their emotional negative reaction will slowly wane, all in the meantime they generated a ton of buzz, free of charge, that will amount in more people at least giving a trial a shot… Nothing much changes with it, most of those facebook fans probably hadnt even heard of TIDAL and certainly i doubt many were members, so 90% slag it off like they slag everything off and the other 10% give it a try, 10% more then they had before, boom…

            The immediate mass pirating of the exclusive tracks they released only goes to show that they have a lot of publicity and a lot of people tuned into what they are doing… Furthermore, for all we know, its a backhand play by people with the money to do it aimed at the Majors for their equity plays in Spotify that the artists dont get a piece of, but hey, what do i know right?

            Now those artists can work similar angles, as well its artists showing business acumen for other artists willing to put their ego aside and not react emotionally in a negative way, what a concept…

            Therefore all that being said, i think it was a fine play, what little i know of it…

          • Anonymous

            I hear they’re very interested in that kind of thing over at Gearslutz.

          • GGG

            It was purely about the release schtick. You have to be incredibly tone deaf to the last 8-10 years of culture to think lining up a handful of the most successful/famous millionaire musicians to talk about supporting artists was a good idea.

            A few of them to gain visibility, sure, but even I rolled my eyes at the whole thing and I have no reason but to be 100% supportive of Tidal (at least conceptually, I don’t really know too many details yet about pay structure, etc).

          • Anonymous

            It was purely about the release schtick. You have to be incredibly tone deaf to the last 8-10 years of culture to think lining up a handful of the most successful/famous millionaire musicians to talk about supporting artists was a good idea.

            A few of them to gain visibility, sure, but even I rolled my eyes at the whole thing and I have no reason but to be 100% supportive of Tidal (at least conceptually, I don’t really know too many details yet about pay structure, etc).

            Tone deaf?

            Look bud, your little indie world needs to come out the cave for a minute, take its head out of the sand, if there is anyone more tone deaf in the music world it is this weird indie club , you guys are a head scratcher to me, unless you are all paid tech shills your plans and your actions make zero sense to me…

            Unless paid off by tech you and your indie people are buying Eiffel towers, here is the thing, i and most people dont buy eiffel towers, so please pack up your 3 card monte table and take it to some other part of town, thank-you///

            All you indie people just want to be represented with an indie spokesperson from your little circle and to you people not having one of your chronies up on stage is near blasphemous, you cant believe it, who would slip on such a disjointed fragmented part of the business, i mean, its just like you got a raw deal from youtube, and the list goes on and on and on and on…

            The best way to utilize the indie crowd is get them bellyaching and taking the pacifiers out of their mouths to cry a little louder for mommy to come pick them up and give them a back pat and a teet to suck on, unbelievable…

            🙂

          • GGG

            Clearly you missed the whole OWS and ongoing “class warfare,” to use a term I hate, debates that continue to go on. (And save your Canada is great comment, we get it, Canada is perfect). It’s not about the industry by itself, it’s not about majors vs indies, it’s about a collective billion dollars standing on a stage telling people to give artists more money. I’m not saying they’re wrong, obviously I don’t think they are. I’m speaking purely from a marketing standpoint, yet you’re too much of a moron to grasp that. And sure, maybe people will forget about this in a few months, and if the service is better (or just good) it might catch on. But it pretty clearly flopped way more than they thought it would.

            And really, you’re going to make fun of indies for whining? That’s all you fucking do. Well, besides make shitty music and win contests for “guy that looks like a penis in sunglasses the most.”

          • Anonymous

            I’m not saying they’re wrong, obviously I don’t think they are. I’m speaking purely from a marketing standpoint, yet you’re too much of a moron to grasp that.

            To adjust for those reading, moron can be interpreted in this day and age as, somebody who disagrees with someone…

            Im merely disagreeing with you GGG, that is all…

            You are not a moron for having a different opinion then me, you are free to choose how and what to think and not thinking like i do does not make you any more or less or a person, it just makes you someone that thinks differently…

            You can try and shove your opinion down other peoples throats in some cloning effort, but we are all different, live different lives in different worlds, all in different parts of the world, we have different experiences and different backgrounds, we suffer different problems and have different ideas on solutions, as it pertains to what we know and how we know it…

            I have tried numerous times to deescalate the discourse between you and i, and each time it ends up the same, im not into this slag fest stuff and its a terrible shame that we cannot find common ground and build a rapport and relationship from there, the love of music, regardless what you may think of me and my music, we share a similar passion albeit perhaps with different tastes and desires, never the less, in such a competitive and tough business, its a shame that it always ends up resulting in lame kindergarten school yard bullying fisticuffs and pebble tossing…

            I dont like it and i want nothing to do with it anymore, ive been bullied enough in my life and quite frankly ive become the water in a kettle boiling on the stove, and any little bit of crap i take only sends the temperature up a few degrees thus causing a loud thundering whistle of steam releasing, and i apologize you may be someone who takes the brunt of it, as you are certainly not responsible for my lifes worth of being bullied…

            Im pretty cool with it and used to it, but ive reached my limit and that is why when you attack me a certain way that i then treat you like i do, and i apologize for that, it isnt fair to either of us and i have to learn to be the bigger man and not blow that steam in other peoples direction anymore…

            Out different ideas of the result of this release is down to our different perspectives on everything and our different interpretations of not only the business but of their agenda and motive, thus we bang our heads at each others walls as we confidently hit the internet to uphold our beliefs in the face of everyone else trying to swade us to their position, its a battle neither of us can win and we should just accept that some of us are steadfast and headstrong enough to barely allow us to ever have our position superseded…

            The reasons you think it was a failure i dont even believe is a factor in the reasoning and deducement of such things, but that is based on our brains being filled with different synapses and different information stored, as well a different perspective, this is something we have to accept, instead of lowering ourselves to petty levels of immature behavior that ultimately create a very unpleasant environment for not only us but everyone else as well…

            And sure, maybe people will forget about this in a few months, and if the service is better (or just good) it might catch on. But it pretty clearly flopped way more than they thought it would.

            I just believe the world is far too cynical now and no matter what anyone does at their level it will result in a ton of backlash and negative feedback… People will forget and everything will click on, i still see this as a success for them, and that is just my belief that some internet bickering will not change…

            And really, you’re going to make fun of indies for whining? That’s all you fucking do. Well, besides make shitty music and win contests for “guy that looks like a penis in sunglasses the most.”

            I see the Indies whine quite a bit about a plethora of things and ive not only experienced it in real life but all over the internet, so yes… It may not be totally fair, but you all do have a certain tone and wearing my psychological hat for a moment i can deduce why, but i will leave that for others to try and figure out… Ultimately it trends towards whining about everyone elses genre of music then theirs as well as the difficulties they have in the business and on and on and on…

            I dont really whine that much if at all, you have to remember GGG that i have tried to take an approach of entertainment and comedy, many times self deprecating, to try and keep those who are my fans and followers, satiated with free writings full of good stuff…

            You obviously are not one of my fans or followers, that is fine…

            I get you dont like my music GGG, you have said it numerous times, that is fine, you are entitled to your opinion, but there is no need to shout that in my face… Im a normal guy sitting behind a laptop screen reading this just as im guessing you are as well, and i apologize for who i am and how i may have treated you… Sure you might not like how i look, i get that, dealt with it my whole life, but i didnt ask to be here and i sure cant control how i look… I wear contacts and my eyes are very sensitive to light, so if i didnt wear sunglasses id be squinting in every photo, and thats a bad look to me, i apologize for coming off a certain way, but you know what? Ive realized that its all just emotional reactionary stuff to people as they cynically browse the web looking for anything and anyone they can slag off to make themselves feel better about whatever it is that is bothering them in life, so i forgive you for the things you say to me…

            Ultimately this is all i have faced in music, and since people only ever tell me my music sucks and is crappy, i dont bother dumping any money taking it any further, so you can congratulate yourself on winning the battle GGG, you have won, and i smile and shake your hand and say well done old boy, well played old sport, tip my hat, give you a wink, and graciously exit stage left…

            In conclusion, When i was in grade 9 i dated this girl in grade 12, let me tell you people were not happy with me… This one grade 12 tough guy grabbed me by the collar and picked me up and slammed me against the lockers, because he just didnt like me, who i was and how i looked and who i was dating, so he always tried to bully me… He slammed me against the lockers, got right in my face, and threatened to kill me, in school, grade 9, just a happy go lucky optimistic lover, i just smiled…

          • Sarah

            GGG:
            (at least conceptually, I don’t really know too many details yet about pay structure, etc

            Does anyone yet? 🙂

            Big picture, this launch probably isn’t much of a problem. There’s some backlash from consumers but I doubt it will carry over to smaller, independent artists and their audiences to any significant degree. And honestly, most consumers don’t care enough about Tidal one way or the other to swarm anywhere.

            The people who were going to pay $20 for higher quality probably aren’t deterred by this in general. It doesn’t seem like there’s any financial benefit to most artists/labels from consumers’ switching from Spotify $10 to Tidal’s $10 plan, so those numbers are a wash in any case. Most likely, the worst effect of this is that Tidal isn’t going to be as successful at converting non-payers to payers as it might otherwise have been, at least in the short run. From that perspective, this badly executed launch just reduces Tidal’s chances of improving things – it doesn’t actually make the situation worse.

            Just to put a “glass half full” spin on things. 🙂

          • DNog

            GGG….haha I think you may enjoy the mental punishment you get from talking with you know who.

  7. Anonymous

    “what happens when you double the price and restrict access to the best stuff?”

    People who can’t afford it drive Toyota’s instead of Porsche’s.

    It’s hilarious how people expect it to be different for their entertainment consumption. “Gee, sorry, but I think that product I want costs too much. So yeah, I’m going to just steal it instead. KTHXBAI.”

    No real free-market economy can sustain such behavior over the long term. Duh.

    Reply
  8. Lucky Lefty

    Don’t you think Jay thought of that already? The gov’t already has a serious handle on the major piracy sites so they will continue to be shut down regularly. The average Joe is not computer savvy enough to navigate the deep web to locate anything worth stealing. Furthermore, there are two tiers if service. One similar to spotify for $9.99 and another with higher quality audio AND video for $19.99. For two types of services and the knowledge (for now) that my favorite artists and new artists will finally get proper deals, I think that’s the way to go. If you can’t pay, you can’t pay. Keep working hard and maybe you’ll earn more money. Or if you don’t have the skills for the job, visit Jay’s website for a chance at a scholarship.

    Reply
    • Musicservices4less

      Lucky Lefty, you said it very succinctly as to what is starting to happen. If what some people are saying that the Tidal streaming service is going to drive even more people to use pirate sites is true, that actually may, at least in the short term, be a good thing as it might be the tipping point for the powers that be in Washington to finally realize that Google/Youtube and other tech distributors are the ones allowing and supporting illegal content and piracy. Hopefully it will lead to a change of laws and regulations relating to the Internet and the control and regulation of ISPs. The safe harbor provision of the copyright law has had 15 long years and has proven to be a safe haven for those sites and “tubes” operating on the internet which allow illegal content and pirate sites to flourish. The change in governing regulations due to net neutrality is only the beginning.

      The Age of Internet Piracy is finally in sight.

      Reply
  9. Robert

    I can’t believe they didn’t have indie artists representing and speaking for Tidal as well. It just hurt them so much not doing that and that’s an unfortunate sign of being out of touch! Being out of touch works great for them on stage and in the creative process as well, you actually want to be out of touch in these areas, but not here and that’s why i’m fearing this might go in the wrong direction, at least from what they’ve showed so far!
    The word ” History ” kept coming and coming for the wrong reasons. It seemed it was more about ” Making History ” in itself, rather than really moving the needle for MUSIC ( ALL MUSIC) .
    ” Last time we’ve seen that many stars in one room, they created WE ARE THE WORLD! ( For Africa! ) “

    Reply
  10. Yeah

    These 16 artists represent the top 1% idea that has become more and more noticeable in the US. Tidal is going to hurt the middle class musicians the most.

    Reply
  11. ecosystem for content creators

    Hi everyone,
    i’m currently developing a new platform intended for musicians to form a community around content creation, where we can financially support each other by collaborating and remixing each others works online, and then pay each other for stem download and project mixdowns.

    In light of the recent debates over Tidal and trying to find ways for middle class musicians to earn money for their work, i’d like to throw out my companys pitch to you and see what you think about what we’re offering:

    Who are we?:
    We are a crowdsourced music platform that allows amateur and professional musicians to collaborate, remix, and monetize their original works online.

    What do we know? :
    Music simply means more to people who create it. Rather than focusing our efforts on convincing music listeners to pay for music, we are finding ways for creators to support each other by doing what they love best; making music.

    What is our mission?:
    To establish sustainable revenue streams through collaboration and content creation.

    We offer 3 value propositions:

    Collaborate: We enable artists to collaborate more efficiently by crowdsourcing musical ideas online. Users can simply upload pieces of a song, then have others build unto it by uploading or recording their own sounds below the project ‘source track’.

    Remix: By incorporating beat matching technology that enables sounds of different speeds and pitches to match instantaneously; we’re leveling the playing field for all creators, and opening the doors for a multitude of cross genre ideas.

    Monetize: Through micro-transactions for stem downloads and project mix-downs; musicians have an ability to generate revenue from their contributions, remixes, and shared works.

    Encompassing all of these great features is an innovative copyright system that is seamlessly integrated into our social platform; providing maximum control for our original creators, yet reasonable flexibility for our remixers.

    Overall our mission is to establish an open and collaborative culture amongst professional and amateur musicians, making it easier than ever for you to monetize your songs from every stage of the creative process. We believe that this platform can become a new ecosystem for content creators.

    I would really like to get your feedback. Would you use this platform? (Why or why not?), What are the most important features you would need to use this platform?

    Thanks!

    Reply
  12. Versus

    What is she on about?

    The basic tier of Tidal is the same price as paid Spotify.

    Reply
  13. Versus

    So her point is a variation of the vacuous argument:

    “We have to keep our prices so low that most musicians cannot make a living, otherwise “fans” will steal our work instead.”

    FALSE Stop the stealing instead.

    Reply
  14. ch

    Mannnn i really thought i was about switch over from Spotify to Tidal and as a fan of all those artists, I wanted to give them what they deserve for their music cause spotify doesnt pay shit compared to what Tidal is going to pay their artists. Its a GREAT thing for musicians but the musicians arent going to be the ones subscribing and if they do then who the fuck cares cause they have the money anyways. I EVEN DELETED spotify cause i thought i would love tidal cause I do care about the high quality audio but then I switched back quick when i tried to add all my music and they only have popular music, usually missing an album or two from an artist, I couldnt even find The xx’s first album. Like how the fuck are yall not gonna have that. I listen to alot of genres and like listening to whole albums and switched back when i couldnt find everything. Just thought i would share my experience. Going back to spotify now…

    Reply
  15. Ash

    And if they do swarm back to piracy, so be it. As others have said, TIDAL proves just how out of touch these artists are from the reality of starting as a new musician in 2015. I’d imagine that some of their hearts are in the right place, but do they honestly think restricting their own catalog and charging $20 for “high fidelity” which as Allen pointed out, doesn’t matter if you don’t have decent headphones or a solid listening set up to use, is going to fix the music industry?

    I remember reading another DMN post with screen caps of fans on Facebook complaining about how ‘greedy’ a lot of these artists are being. I don’t agree with that assessment, but just like we saw with Lars Ulrich and Napster – no one is going to sympathize with a famous musician they perceive as being wealthy. Whether or not that’s true or not is beside the point. The general perception is that musicians are wealthy if they are famous and that it’s an easy job you get by singing on The Voice. Most listeners don’t understand just what it takes to have success and what it costs to put on tours, produce records, and the like. We all know that. TIDAL artists are making a mistake by trying to throw major labels and Spotify under the bus – that’s been done. The smart thing would be to do this in a more covert way because we have already seen how this is blowing up in their faces.

    You can talk all you like about how to save the music industry, how to give artists a fair wage from streaming, and how awful the major labels are. The reality is, it’s a mess and it has always been a mess, albeit a functioning one. The answer is not in a service like TIDAL and the answer isn’t restricting access in hopes of forcing people to pay for it. The only reason streaming was a success is because it is more convenient to download an app on your phone or computer and listen to any song you want than it is to download a torrenting program, download a record, load it into iTunes, plug your phone in, and upload it. People will pay for convenience as we see every day with bottled water, fast food, and so on. No one is going to care if the audio quality is superior – Spotify is cheaper and it’s integrated with Facebook and they can send their friends playlists and so on. Hell, I only pay for beats because AT&T debits it straight to my bill and it’s cheaper than Spotify with the package I have and I’m a college music major. I buy records from artists I want to support and use Spotify for the rest.

    A lot of people who are essentially beating a dead horse (on DMN and on other news outlets) seem pretty out of touch with the reality and are driven more by their own anger and emotions than by the reality. It’s okay to be angry, but suggesting all this crap about creating a $20 billion music industry in 5 years or whatever weird comments I see on here if we just make this one silver bullet change is absolutely ridiculous. There is no silver bullet. Maybe if people in the music industry stopped looking for that magic cure and stopped following formulas both in their music and in their business that do not work then people would give a shit. Just create your music, work hard, and be creative in your artistic endeavors and business practices and gradually, things will work out. The industry is a huge mess, we all know that, but so is corporate America. Apathy and throwing energy in the wrong direction isn’t going to help and there is no one size fits all solution.

    If it were that easy, everyone would be a successful musician and we wouldn’t have the problems we have now.

    Reply
  16. FarePlay

    “People will pay for convenience as we see every day with bottled water, fast food, and so on. No one is going to care if the audio quality is superior – I buy records from artists I want to support and use Spotify for the rest.”

    Ash, lot of valid points. The reality is the music business is hanging by a thread and things may get worse before they get better. The pricing model for music streaming is unsustainable, musicians get this. Their backs are up against the wall, so they are finally going to make the hard choices they haven’t wanted to make for a long time.

    Piracy is failed experiment that has gone on for far too long. Even Peter Sunde, one of the founders of Pirate Bay sees piracy as just a money grab. The alternate streams of revenue generated by all this grand exposure has worked for a handful of artists, but very, very few bands can make a living from touring and merch dales.

    It was all a con to make pirates feel good about themselves and the kid who spends $4. a day on Monster Drink feeling of sticking it to the man. Unfortunately, the man was some kid working at the dollar store trying to scrape together gas for his van so he could play, make $15 and drink beer on a saturday night.

    I managed club bands for four years in SF and LA, I know the drill. But at least bands could sell CDs at shows and make some extra money and at least promote their music. Now someone goes to a show, passes on the CDs and if they remember they downland a couple of songs.

    This has never been an easy business and it’s harder now than ever. Those of us who were excited by Tidal, were excited because musicians were taking control and as rich and successful as these guys are, they knew the odds were against them going in.

    Reply
  17. ja

    is this even english? who gives a f*ck about any of this? the majors are running on more fumes every year anyway, and your readers are certainly not them.

    Reply

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