In Dylan's defense....he is Bob Dylan.

Yawn! Such old news.. ya kinda 50 years too late ..... just catching up??

Back in the early '60s Robert Zimmerman was in the UK.

A number of UK musicians working on the folk circuit taught him a whole slew of traditional folk melodies ... and ya know what...

 He took those melodies and harmonies, put some new lyrics to them, copyrighted them, and released them as his original work .....

It was slick move, virtually no-one in the usual well informed USA would know, but back in the UK we were shocked....

For example the melody of the song "Lay Down Your Weary Tune" is melodically the same as a classic 16c Lowland Scottish tune called "O Waly, Waly"

I could go on... but it's interesting to see people slowly getting up to speed.....only took 50 years!

To add.... back in the day a group of us in the UK thought it would be a hoot to release an album of the folk songs that Robert Zimmerman copyrighted as his songs based on the same songs that he used  with our own words saying these were new original lyrics on traditional folk songs. We thought it would be fun to release it as a play-along with sheet-music, as of course the melodies and harmonies were long out of copyright! We didn't do it in the end, because we had more positive music making things to do, but it would have been fun and may have changed music history! But to give credit where it's due... Bobby's lyrics were great, but it would have been nice if he'd given a nod to the melodic/harmonic sources.

listen to 'ode to woody guthrie', performed at carnegie hall as woody was dying in the hospital..no plagarism there and a fine piece of prose that ranks with the great poets past and present

That's no defense at all.

Paul, it's worth asking what exactly are "the rules of plagarism?" The more one researches this question, the more it becomes obvious that what little definition can be found is in need of serious help. Schools need to address this sooner or later. In the meantime, if you're worried about plagarism in the context of rock music then I agree with Bob. Rock music is too dangerous for schools.

Robert Zimmerman's ego is so large I don't even know how someone can get into the same room to do an interview let alone ask questions about his creative process.

No one cares and his album sucks.  

I can see I'm not the only one!  But then I've never understood his appeal.

I listened to his early albums a lot. Haven't kept up much since then (though I thought the Christmas album was hilarious and bought that).

He probably didn't have to give credit for lines he got elsewhere, but why not do it? Drawing upon obscure works is a good thing (I loved his XM radio show because of all the historical stuff he featured on it) so it wouldn't have lessened his contributions by explaining that he picked up stuff along the way.

The interview excerpt you have given makes him sound like Lance Armstrong. "They are singling me out." But I suppose Dylan has always been cranky. Do I think less of him now? No. Do I think more of him now? No.

I'll always think of him as someone who wrote defining songs of my generation. But do I need to figure him out and like him? Probably not. Now Pete Seeger, that's a cool guy.

Wow, found a kindred soul who also listened to Dylan's XM show.. what was it, 'Theme Time Radio Hour'?

Dylan taught me about Sister Rosetta Tharpe and many other things.

/paul

Continuing with the biblical theme, should he have credited Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, & Paul on his gospel records?

Furthermore: What has been will be again. What has been done will be done again. There is nothing new under the sun. - King Solomon (or someone before him, uncredited)

No wonder he avoids the press. 

This is a confusing story... Why talk about Henry Timrod? He's public domain. You can do with him whatever you like.

That is why Bob quickly jumped on the Timrod part of the accusation.

On the other hand, even though Junichi Saga said that it was an honour to be quoted by Dylan, I have a feeling an attorney representing Saga would not be so charitable.

Surely when Dylan says 'there are different rules for me' he means that other people in the jazz and folk tradition frequently use 'quotations', but he is the only one who is accused of 'plagiarism' when he does so - the very opposite of the implication in the story's headline. 

At this point I am convinced that Bob Dylan didn"t write many of the songs he is credited for. 

Bob had a team of writers.... they wrote wonderful poems that took the ideas of  others. His "team" led by Albert Grossman for many years, co-opted a phoney movement, on the backs of that "walking eye" record label.

And you belived that he was the real thing, didn't you?

The same is true for much of the Lennon/McCartney catalog. Yes there was a team writing those songs. On a bright note... I think George wrote his own shit though, for  he actually had a soul.

Think about it.

George Harrison certainly had soul, but he did lose a plagiarism lawsuit over "My Sweet Lord" (1.5 mil in 1976 for lifting chord progressions from Ronnie Mack's "He's So Fine").  

If you want to find out what Dylan really thinks of plagiarism try lifting anything that he's written.  

It was more than just chord progressions. The melody was almost identical.

That case did establish a new way to infringe. Well, music anyway.  It held that George didn't knowingly infringe but sub-consciously (or unconsciously I can't remember) infringed. He more likely than not heard the song. The melody and chords stuck in his mind and several years later he writes My Sweet Lord with Billy Preston.  It is amazing that neither one of them or no one else said hey that song sounds exactly like "He's So Fine." Cuz it does.

He means: Everyone else can quotes lines in their poetry without being accused of Plagarism, but not him-- He gets accused of plagarism. Bob is wrong on one point though. Assholes who don't know what they are talking about shouldn't rot in hell, they should offer a retraction and apology for there stupidity. Pass it on, will ya?

Yes other people go unnoticed. Other people don't have the same marketing machine that Bob has.

I don't know much about Bob Dylan but I do know that he has dealt with questions about plagiarism and attribution before. So he could have said "Read my responses to those questions in old issues of Rolling Stone you hack."

Also I don't know if when magazines like rollingstone and other media declare that Bob Dylan is a genius does Bob correct them as quickly and vehemently and say "I'm no genius. I am carrying on the tradition." 

Lennon said: "It's all in the air"

I think he said that when the taxman came asking about all the millions of pounds made.

@David and @Dave

I think your interpretations are right here.

Also, there's a recurring bug in the comments section in which the entire story is reposted in your comment.  It's creeping into this comments section for some reason.  But drop us a note at news@digitalmusicnews.com if that happens to you, including your comment and desired username.  We'll repair as quickly as possible.

/paul

Confusing stuff..Maybe there should be created lyrics plagiarism detection software (like plagiarism checker http://www.plagtracker.com/  for protecting your written work)?

or google

Pretty interesting.  I hadn't thought of this, but the pieces of this are already being put together in the open market.

The lyrics checker would be the most direct translation here, though companies like TuneSat are using auto-detect to automatically detect synch uses on television (and catch unauthorized use).  I know that's more infringement than plagiarism, but it certainly translates.

/paul

Written while listening to Unknown Mortal Orchestra.

Easy solution: give songwriting credit.

It's called a co-write. If you've written a song with (or for) someone (contributed lyrics, or a melody), it's a co-write, unless it was a work-for-hire. 

I would think that someone as rich as Dylan would have no problem sharing or giving credit (meaning $) to others (authors, or even to foundations that own the works), knowing he was giving back to the community. Walking the walk. Why not acknowledge and lift those other contributors?

It's ironic that he'd be given songwriting credit if even a tiny portion of one of his songs was sampled (or even quoted) for a hip hop song, yet his analog style of 'sampling' gives those authors nothing.

Rich and famous musicians who start believing their own hype rarely give credit or money to people they have taken material from.  

Just try asking Page or Plant about Howlin Wolf and Willie Dixon song writing credits. Peter Grant would physically toss you from the room before you couild finish the question.

The reason why Dylan is given credit when someone samples his work is because he has publishers and distributors with deep pockets and hordes of attorneys.

Obscure authors and folk singers don't have highly paid entourages.

Folk music is Hip Hop's grandfather

I wonder how versed the interviewer is on American musicial  art forms or art within the last 100 years. All music and art forms have been taking from one another. Jazz,blues,folk,R&B their hybrids of everything just like most American's are.

I remember hearing Joni Mitchell making a stink about Bob and plaglarism and calling him fraud. Joni Mitchell the musician and the artist should take a real hard look in the mirror ,"Before you accuse me take a look at yourself" how many times has that line appeared in books,songs articles in all mediums.

As Mr. Dylan knows you can only please your self at least he was to the point and honest.

Lol. "In his defense he is Bob Dylan." As if that matters. But the point is this: Songwriting isn't scholarly or legal writing so he can bite without the cite. I was a songwriting major at Berklee and I've studied with the greats. None of them ever told me or showed citation protocol. 

Virtually nothing of Shakespeare's work is completely original. If he had worried about plagiarism we would not have those immortal works. Bob Dylan right from the beginning acknowledged where he got some of the melodies. Read the sleeve notes of Freewheelin. He was always very honest about it. But his greatest songs like Ballad of a Thin Man and Like a Rolling Stone, not to mention Sad Eyed Lady of the Lowlands- well I challenge you to link them directly to any particular song. If you listen to "No more Auction Block' you may see a resemblance to Blowin in the Wind- but its not totally identical. Most blues resembles itself. Regarding the folk idiom, Girl from The North Country has a vaguely similar melody but it is a markedly different tune to Scarborough Fair. Anyway who wrote that song in the first place? If you listen even carelessly you will see it is a completely different tune. All art through history refers to previous works. Robert Johnson got his tunes from the public domain; but had he not done so we would not have Robert Johnson- what a disaster that would have been. I have seen film of Dylan (at Newport) saying straight out before he sang "With God on Our Side" that he took the tune from "Patriot Game". That is how folk works. Lets not forget how heavily thousands of artists have blatantly borrowed from Bob Dylan. ("Catch the Wind" of Donovan's is flagrantly "Chimes of Freedom". I repeat that Bob Dylan's most sublime songs are completely original- Ballad of a Thin Man is a great example.

Zog

You are right about Joni Mitchell. Have you seen that self portrait of Ms Mitchell's where she totally copies Van Gogh's earless self portrait? Its exactly the same except it is recognisably Joni rather than Vincent. For her to whinge about Dylan reeks of jealousy and petty vindictiveness. Still I think its fair enough for Joni to copy Van Gogh- that's what artists have always done- but to attack Dylan for doing similar (though rather more convincingly)- is redolent of ... well somewhat obvious self-serving double standards.

charges/accusations and questions of influence and authenticity have always come up in the broader historical context - beethoven, stravinsky et al.

as someone said- 'the mediocre borrow and the great steal'.

That's true Oz. I agree with you. The nastiness of some comments about Dylan are cruel and stupid- especially on the net. This guy has given humanity so very much while enduring idiotic catcalling and vicious comments from patent philistines who have no understanding of what constitutes art. Art has always borrowed, stolen, referred to, and quoted other artists. All the great poets referred to poetry that had gone before. Art does not exist in a vacuum. If you hadn't done your homework and were not influenced by others you would probably sound vacuous - perhaps somewhat like Joni Mitchell. Bob Dylan is a musical encyclopoedia- Clapton says its hard to come up with a song he doesn't already know. He gets listened to because he himself has listened to everything. The alternative is unthinkably tedious- that is to end up sounding like Joni Mitchell.

Yeah I don't know any artist who goes out trying to communicate something completely original. Unless you're John Cage or the like. But who actually listens to John Cage? And who really wants to be John Cage? The point of songwriting is to communicate something in the most affecting way, to create some kind of response in the listener. And Bob Dylan is and always will be (given the fragmentation of culture) the king of that. And you can't do that in a vaccume, trying to build your own context. You have no choice but to reference. Elvis did it, the Beatles did it, Eric Clapton did it, the bluesmen that inspired them did it. The only difference between them & an artist like Jimmy Page is that Page refuses to acknowledge where his stuff came from.

Anyone who's had any success writing songs is keenly aware of what goes into it, & anyone who suggests that Dylan (or the Beatles, for that matter) is a plagiarist falls into one of four categories: a middle man looking to make a buck on the back of artists (at the expense of art), someone jealous of Dylan's success or the support he receives, some hack critic trying to cut down Dylan in order to make himself look good, or someone who has some social agenda that involves undermining a disident like Dylan. Some variation of "Mr Jones," which a lot of these commentors seem to be.

For what it's worth, my first exposure to Dylan was via Hootie & the Blowfish back in '94. "Put on a little Dylan, sittin' on a fence. I said, 'That line is great,' you asked me what he meant by... [3 lines quoted directly from Dylan's Idiot Wind]."

I love the way you just change the subject, words or music when you can't face the truth....or the way you prostitute and whore out yourself for the betterment of humankind while asking us to donate to your 3rd world struggle while keeping most of it for your high living lifestyle. The way you say one thing and mean something else...you are the problem that distorts the truth....you are the rockstar, actor, the fool we were warned about...we have awaken... Dalton Priddy 2012