iTunes Chart-Toppers (a/o February 21st):
You know the drill: fetch some coffee, answer the phones, kiss some butt, and hope it all goes somewhere. It's the unpaid internship, a well-worn rite of passage in the music industry. But does this make sense anymore, especially with so many established companies struggling and cutting back? And remember: there's less guarantee than ever that you'll get a gig, so can you afford that risk?
That was a huge question over the weekend at a conference held by the Music & Entertainment Industry Educators 
Association (MEIEA) in Los Angeles, one heavily attended by soon-to-be-graduating college students.
Naturally, the question came up, and most executives supported the free internship as a perfect and often necessary shoe-in. In fact, most felt it was critical. Keith Hatschek, currently director of Music Management at University of the Pacific, said internships easily gave candidates a clear edge - and oftentimes made the hands-down difference. "And if you have a letter of recommendation, then you're way ahead of the competition," Hatschek relayed. "I was an employer for 23 years, and I never hired someone because they had a 4.0 grade point."
Others successfully climbed from the intern ranks themselves, and strongly backed the idea. "I took an internship with ASCAP after I graduated, for no credit and no money," relayed Alisha Davis, currently Associate Membership Representative for Film & TV at the company. "I was an outstanding intern, and they did everything they could to get me a job and get me hired. So I moved out [to LA] on Sunday, and started working on Monday."
Sounds like an easy formula, but it is really that simple anymore? For example, is your target company hiring when you need them to be hiring? Will they still be around in a few years? Or, can you parlay the internship into a real gig somewhere else when it matters, especially in a shrinking industry?
Maybe these questions are easier in California, where employers are required by law to either pay an employee or give college credit. So there's less downside, but others face more difficult questions related to their financial situations and opportunity costs. Yet even in situations where there's no money, no credit, and difficult prospects, most interns can still walk away with some experience, a recommendation or two, and a better working knowledge of the business. But remember: this is still a heavy investment of time and money that assumes future rewards, and a decision worth weighing carefully.
Report by Paul Resnikoff, publisher, reporting from Los Angeles.
Comments Closed
Chelsea Monday, April 04, 2011
Unpaid internships never made sense!
Not only are they unpaid, but parents typically end up needing to financially suport the intern for all other expenses.
Plus, internships aren't what they used to be. Instead of learning experience, the interns are expected to teach the company about social media and networking!
Hoping for a positive future in the intern world.
lifer Monday, April 04, 2011
The intern who was the most organized person that anyone ever saw, plus she was smart, creative, hard-working, persistent and easy to get along with...she got the job over the other workers who are still badmouthing her as a "brown-nose." She ignored the idiocies of the jerks she reported to because she was learning how NOT to run a business. In less than 10 years she is a vice president and paying no attention to the same people who made fun of her going the extra mile to provide "slave labor to the man." Today she goes out of her way to mentor and support young people who show the same focus and initiative she did. Who's laughing now?
As far as parents footing the bill. We do what it takes to get our children the experience they need. So be it if the man gets some free labor.
QSDC Monday, April 04, 2011
Here's a better question:
Does it make sense for a young person to aspire to a job in the music industry?
lifer Monday, April 04, 2011
Which music industry?
Legacy indies or majors? Newer indie? Music-focused tech comnpanies? Start-ups? Artist management firms? Local venue? National promoter?
@littleluda Monday, April 04, 2011
Kyle Hughes
They do. You have to make the most of it. Build trust. Seek out people that will give you things to do, besides get coffee.
Johan Monday, April 04, 2011
I've got a question for you, Paul: when are you going to start taking anti-depressants? You provide solid evidence contrary to your argument and give some pithy "oh, but it might not work for you" statements that don't even ascend to regular vagueness.
Give us some facts or give us some solutions. Otherwise you come off as just another cantankerous prick that takes joy in deflating the younger workforce before they're even out of the gate. Want a self-fulfilling prophecy? Keep looking for reasons to say the music industry is struggling. I'm sure you'll be delighted in all your bloated misery when the status quo remains.
CraigDiPaolo Monday, April 04, 2011
Yeah, okay JOhan can I have the Kool Aid your having please? What you are basically saying is that students should rush into any free internships on daddy's money, and expect something voila(!!!) to happen.
Great idea --- in 1998.
The business isn't structured and reliable anymore, it's totally decentralized not concentrated, and therefore the tried and true slave mechanisms are not necessarily benefiting both sides.
Marlee Monday, April 04, 2011
Pass me a cup of the Kool Aid (sic) YOU'RE having, Craig. Did you even read what Johan was saying? He's referring to taking a proactive stance not advocating a specific position such as "rushing into free internships". And who said anything about "daddy's money"? Puzzled as to how you imbued all that meaning into what he just wrote which was completely sensical. REREAD, sans the Kool-Aid.
presnikoff Tuesday, April 05, 2011
Johan,
I'm not quite sure I understand your arguments. Certainly, the panelists I quoted believe whole-heartedly in the free internship concept, but does that mean that everyone else has to as well? And by extension, should students and graduates then blindly walk into these arrangements without critically evaluating and weighing their options?
At the risk of stretching here, you also seem to be suggesting that I should pretend that the industry is not struggling, to avoid discouraging younger talent. But would that be the best way to approach a subject like this, just by rah-rah'ing until the situation improves? Or, worse, suggesting that students or fresh graduates burn thousands waiting for this to happen?
I think students and younger job-seekers can make their own intelligent decisions. Eager to hear your response.
Thanks, /pr
NathanJE Monday, April 04, 2011
Internships are really expensive for the student especially if there's not credit, but of course these companies are going to say do it. That's because they get free labor which in this market is more important than ever and most are not hiring. Plus if you went through an internship for a year before getting hired your not about to just pay someone right away.
I think *maybe* a part time internship makes sense but there are so many other things to multi task with. And it really depends on what you are doing. If I'm fetching coffee and running around town like a Hollywood lackey without any path upward then forget it, because that's not experience that's just wasting time.
::nate::
Hollywood Producer Monday, April 04, 2011
Another day at a major Hollywood Studio...
"What!?!
I told you I wanted coffee with milk and sugar!! Not two cups of black coffee! Go back and get it done right!
And who told you to choose those Crate & Barrel mugs of the earthy tone variety! I hate those! They kill my creativity!! Get OUT of my OFFICE!"
Andy O'Brien Tuesday, April 05, 2011
I think it would still work for someone who doesn't have experience but knows they can do the job and is willing to prove themselves.
It is like a musician that plays an open-mic for free at a club before they can book a show. The musician knows they can do it they just have to prove it to someone. (maybe themselves).
http://www.andyobrienmusic.com
Anonymous Tuesday, April 05, 2011
An unpaid internship was the most popular way my former company (a major digital distributor) hired entry-level talent. That said, only a small number of unpaid interns made the transition to full time employment.
Most young people trying to break into the biz know the reality - there's a sizable chance whoever you work for without pay is going to use you and lose you. If they want to take that chance, good luck to them, and I hope they make informed decisions on how to spend such a large opportunity cost.
Spellman Tuesday, April 05, 2011
Fact: The 'music industry' still generates tens of billions of dollars annually around the globe.
Fact: Securing jobs in the music industry is primarily driven by relationships.
Fact: Internships get your foot in the door in order to show your skills and build relationships.
Fact: Internships are still one of the best investments you can make if your goal is to work in the music industry.
The same is true in the new media and entertainment industry spaces.
Conclusion: Make the investment; it's only your career we're talking about.
mcareerjuice.com
Former Intern Tuesday, April 05, 2011
My internship at Epic Records in NYC was the biggest waste of time. I packaged up CDs and stuffed them in envelopes for 5 hours of every day that I worked there. Whenever I asked anyone a question, I would get a response that was basically "why the fuck are you talking to me?" so there was no way that I could learn what was going on well enough to make any suggestions or changes. And it wasn't just me, all of the other interns in my department hated it.
And yes, I lived on daddy's money. When I wasn't at my internship, I worked another job (I worked 7 days a week) and it didn't pay me enough to pay the bills. The way I see it, you have to either take money from your parents or pay for your internship through loans, and that's not right.
I have a friend that is a law student and is contemplating getting an internship at an entertainment law firm and even they don't pay.
If you do a couple internships during undergrad and graduate, by the time you're done interning, you've given up $30,000 or more in earnings. So look at it this way, would you pay someone $30,000 for a chance to work in the industry?
joanned Tuesday, April 05, 2011
thank you spellman.
persistence is key.
lifer Wednesday, April 06, 2011
Fact: The "new media" industry IS the music industry.
Conclusion: Get over it.
Hisham Dahud Tuesday, April 05, 2011
Unbpaid internships are WELL worth it. However, the key is to ensure you're being utilized as a knowledge worker and not as a task worker. If you already have something to bring to the table, make sure the company you're with is somehow utilziing it. If not, do all in your power to ensure you pick up new skill sets which can be applied to future internships/jobs.
It took me 3 unpaid (college credit) internships before I got a paying gig working in the music industry.
And they were all worth it.
DMAvery Tuesday, April 05, 2011
i'm afraid that the idea of an internship as "fetch some coffee, answer the phones, kiss some butt" is a bit out-dated. with the music biz breaking down into a slew of small to medium-sized businesses, the need for real working interns has become a basic necessity. if the only internship you can find is one whose chief demand is stapling papers together, you haven't been looking very hard. there are plenty of real deal internships at very cool music companies that need real help. and with the job market as dismal as it currently is, we've had people come to us looking for internships who are out of college and who aren't going to get credit. why? because there are few relevant jobs out there and until someone finds a music biz job, it looks much better to have an internship at a music company on your resume than a 6 month stint @ McDonalds or a tour of mom's basement. find a good company to intern at and get some experience. it's better than sitting around waiting for your dream job to drop in your lap.
Eric Fritschi Tuesday, April 05, 2011
At Nettwerk, we are extremely proud of our internship program and take it quite seriously. In fact, we specifically say "don't get coffee this summer" in our program postings.
At an independent label like ours, there's never a shortage of ways for interns to become actively involved in artist campaigns, whether it be press, sales, marketing, social media or artist management. In exchange for this valuable help, we try to ensure that our interns get specific knowledge and experience in their areas of interest. We ask interns to attend meetings and meet with key executives for career advice/development.
While we may not be able to offer our interns jobs in the end, we make it a point to prepare our interns as best as possible for their entry into the music biz, wherever it may be, including connections to job opportunities at other companies. It’s a shame that so many internships are perceived to be a waste of time. We hope to be one of the exceptions.
SocialSoundSystem Tuesday, April 05, 2011
I agree with most here... Interships are necessary in today's music industry. How else are you supposed to get a feel and understanding for a company? How else are you supposed to know "this is what I really want to do?" I think a lot of people who intern with us come in with this misconception that the music industry is all concerts and bright lights... When in reality it's a lot of emails, spreadsheets, online marketing, social networks, etc.
Interns also have to bring something to the table... They can't just wait around to get hired when they bring no value to the table. I, along with several of my colleagues, interned for at least a year before being brought on. During that period I was on unemployment, working odd-jobs and weekends, living out of a backpack travelling up and down California on bikes, buses and trains... For a year and a half before i finally moved to LA from San Diego. So I kinda have no sympathy at all
It's also about how serious they take it and network the fuck out of every event and concert they're at. We have had several intern success stories where dedicated people have gone on to become managers, tour managers, production/lighting, marketing, etc etc etc. It's up to them to make the most out of their time in the internship.
@cole_armstrong Tuesday, April 05, 2011
Cole Armstrong
Wish I would have read this last summer.....
Holly Bright Tuesday, April 05, 2011
It's interesting that you point out that in California that companies are either required to provide class credit or pay their interns. In my experience both in college and throughout law school interning in various music industry and film industry jobs in LA, there is almost no such thing as a paid position and companies frequently turn a blind eye to a student receiving credit. Often times, if it's a summer internship the student would have to pay for the equivalent credit hours in an internship class. For me as an undergrad at USC, it would have cost me almost $4000 to work for free for the summer at a certain unnamed Burbank major studio that had at least 10 unpaid / uncredited interns in my department alone.
It's a terrible catch 22 for students who, as you point out in your article, need the "experience" to get a potentially paid job in the future. In business & legal affairs positions in particular recently there has been a huge problem with departments laying off paid positions and hiring UNPAID graduates to fill in the gaps with the promise of experience and a resume boost. And of course the industry thinks it's a good idea! They get free people to do their work!
Thanks for letting me vent on an issue that I have always thought was abusive to students!
KDC Tuesday, April 05, 2011
As someone who has been interning in the music business for 5 years now (4 as an undergrad, 1 as a grad), I think the funnel of new talent through the internship process is crucial, and it shouldn't be an easy time transitioning from an internship position to that of a paid, full-time employee. I don't want every kid who decides it'd be fun to work in the music business being able to go from internship to employment — it should be a serious challenge. Now more than ever, the kids who come up through this system need to be ready to sacrifice everything to get into this business and be successful. Nothing should be handed to them. If they don't have the passion for music necessary to get them through that, I don't want them as my future colleagues.
Just landing an internship in this business is fiercely competitive, and it should be. Students have to think intelligently about what the right move is for them in terms of which companies they hope to work for & if they're willing to put in the years of free work necessary for a shot at it. Interning at a major company (as many of my friends do) may mean you have to do some bitch work, but at least you learn the fundamentals of the business & have the chance to get to know the culture of the industry. If students are smart and target smaller, more inventive companies, they will not only get to learn far more, but they may have the chance that I've had to become an important part of a company's team and to position themselves as strong up-and-comers. It's all about building relationships and creating & taking advantage of opportunities, and if students can't figure out how to do that during the internship phase of their careers, maybe it's not so bad that they can't find a job in the business.
I cannot put into words how much I learned at my internships and how invaluable the experiences have been. I would never trade in the time I've spent at the three companies I've been with, and without them, I'd probably be miserably working in finance like most of my Ivy League classmates. I certainly wouldn't be as incredibly well prepared to tackle this industry as I am today.
And for the record (re: parents' $$), I come from no money & have largely supported myself financially since I was 15, so I'm not sitting on my parents' cash while I pursue my dream. I live off student aid & am betting my future on being able to break into this business, and even if I fail, I won't regret it. This is what I live for, and I don't think anyone who can't say the same should even have a shot. I'll take the fight any day over the easy ride — and my internships, too.
Suzanne Lainson Tuesday, April 05, 2011
I think there are two issues here: 1. Working for free. 2. Getting a paying job eventually.
Entertainment is one of those industries where many people are willing to work for free, so companies don't need to pay interns. That's a no-brainer.
But will interning lead to a paying job in the industry eventually? Probably not, because qualified people are getting laid off. You will likely do better starting your own company than hoping someone else will hire you.
lifer Wednesday, April 06, 2011
Good point Suzanne. Even better to start your own business WHILE working as an intern and leverage each with the other. It is amazing how people respond to initiative. Sort of like how it is easier to find a job, or a lover, when you already have one.
ck Friday, April 08, 2011
Internship should result in a common agreement between the intern and the company before the internship starts.
If the intern commits to an unpaid internship, its also his responsability to make sure that before the internship starts, a clear WRITTEN list of tasks and responsabilities are planed. its all about a professional common agreement.
Unpaid internships make sense if this list is respected by the company and the intern.Its also the intern's responsability to observe the lacks and needs of the company and to take initiatives in order to become indispensable.
Finally, it's also the intern's responsability to judge whether or not he should leave the company shorter if despite his efforts, nothing is changing.....no unpaid internship is a guarantee to a job and yes its a huge risk, but before complaining, the intern should try to do its best and show initiatives!it's the company's role to also accept to teach essential things, to bring the intern to meetings...recognition is a motivation key when you are not paid...and this factor is forgotten by too many companies.
That said, Im not sure that someone who is already graduated should be still interning 1 year after the end of her/his diploma...its happening too much in the music industry..... If you don't show more expectation but instead a lack of respect to yourself, the company is going to take this opportunity and to continue offering unpaid positions...
Finally, creating your own business at the same time is a great idea in terms of experience, networking...
Ace Friday, April 08, 2011
I've been doing the unpaid internship gig and it's going very well. It's not bitch office work at all and I'm learning so much about the industry and building my own contacts and relationships within the industry and am now being considered for a full time position.
@sushi250 Friday, April 08, 2011
Jessica L
There will always be good, experience building internships and the bad, exploit-free-labour ones.
@CRASHarts Saturday, April 09, 2011
WorldMusic/CRASHarts
do unpaid internships in music make sense anymore?
i would say YES absolutely, no doubt in my mind. this dude is crazy.
@musicregistry Saturday, April 09, 2011
Stephen Trumbull
Some interesting comments
@originleaves Friday, April 15, 2011
Jeffrey Ching
Answer: Investment.
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